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Discussion in 'Custom Projects' started by Elbadruhel, May 12, 2018.
no Stromgarde faction and Thoras Trollbane? :/
Will the Broken Isles added into the map and give legion more events and units?
Depens on how things are made, I've won a fair share of games as arrakoa ( They were pretty strong) and ogres, the problem wasn't the solo faction but the op things that were akama, and later on elites... The map was quite fun but it had some balance issues tho I do not feel like solo factions vs 3 vs 7 were the case... also that can be fixed by lowering food cap of the huge team factions and such
Hello everyone, im pleased of seeing so much interest in the map. I will try to solve all ur doubts and questions. Lets start.
Hi Smyl, thanks for your advice.
When i started to develop the map, i tought about it, and had several ideas, like split the Horde in Warsong and Frostwolves clans, or into Horde and Frostwolves. But i touight that may be not enough land or heroes for both, but if needed, it could be chaned in the future, i want to see first how does this works first. (A posibility is Frostwolves with Drekthar and Nazgrel in Alterac, and the Horde with Thrall and Grom in Arathi). Also, i tought about seting the Horde in the same team as Trolls, since they were allies in the 2nd war, but it was not lore accurate, and (even more important) dangerous for balance, cause the 2 trolls factions (and the Drakkari in future expansions) are STRONG and BIG as fuck, 2 of the strongest factions ingame, also, the Horde has a graet rush at start, so if they were allied with trolls they could delete the alliance. But i took this idea and designed a future second chance for Jinthalor when they become weaker and alies fo the horde, both lore accurated and nice balanced.
But even all of this toughts and ur nice advice, i think the things in my map could be a bit different than in FoD or LTF, because the game itself is totally dfferent. At start, is not the same 7 vs 5 than 6vs6. But what i mean is, here u are not based in CPs, here u need to have gold production, land. The alliance may look like the stronger team, but if u check my map, from those 6 guys: Dwarves are tiny, Arthas is tiny and Dalaran is tiny. They have 2 empire factions: Quelthalas and Lordaeron, 1 medium faction: Silver Hand, and 3 support/special factions: Arthas, Dalaran and Dwarves. And they will have a GREAT trouble, CotD and Malganis will sneaky attack their lands from within, destroying their economy and runing their lands, so they wont be able to recruit as much as they should, and they wont be able to gather all their armies agaisnt a single enemy. On the contrary, you will have 2 troll empires with their hearthlands SAFE, an Horde that mainly doesnt need land or cant be harrased so easily cause they can move and that will get free events troops to boost his army and 3 factions that u cant attack at the start and that get troops among the dead. Summarizing: the alliance is fucked.
The Horde has great choices, cause its lands are one of the safer in Lordaeron, with Thoradins wall, and the few paths to Hinterlands, they can become strong in Arathi. And if they expand to western Arathi they can try to hold in DUrnholde and the river, expanding step by step. Then Alterac and the mountain paths, etc. While doing all of this, they get event troops for free, and they are able to build economy behind them or carry it with them to be safer. Also, they will be able to build wherever they want, cause there wont be undeads fucking their live (the plague only affects humans (lore), so uds will focus on human kingdoms). This will end meaning the Alliance lands will be plagued, with not enough room to build farms, with an increasing horde in a safer spot in the south, with an army of fierce orcs that get gold from looting last human holdings.
6 guys with no gold or army cant win a war. yes, they could kill horde with all their heroes together, but if they do so, is not "bad balance" cause they will lose all their lands to Uds and trolls in exchange. And this map is not CP based, u cant just strike back and steal CP, u need structures to get money, so if u lose them, u will be dmged for quite a good amount of time. Dmged and weak.
As u can see i have tought a lot about it .
I tought about it, but according with what Smyl said, i didnt want more alliance factions ingame to dont fuck the horde. Also, there are few holdings in Arathi, so it may turn in a fast and quick defeat of Stromgarde or the Horde. So i think it wont be funny for no one. But maybe, in the future, if i split the horde in 2 orc factions, i could split Lordaeron in Stromgarde too.
Btw, Lordaeron current develop heroes include Thoras Trollbane as its BEST hero, with his mighty sword Trol'Kalar. The rest of "great guys" in Lordaeron nowadays are: Galen Trollbane, Prince of Stromgarde, Aedelas Blackmoore, Master of Durnholde and Othmar Garithos, Lord of Blackwood. I dont know if give them 4 heroes or turn 1 into a demihero or somehting. Thoras and Galen will start in Stromgarde, Aedelas in Durnholde and Garithos in Blackwood (eastern Lordaeron). Im also studying the idea of: if Stromgarde falls, Thoras dies; if Durnholde falls, Aedelas dies.
I accept suggestions about heroes.
As far as i know, the Broken Isles had no importance in this period of time. I also dont want to expand too much the map to the west, to focus in in lordaeron and be able to make it bigger to represent it more properly and have more land to battle in. I will have to expand it a bit to the west to set northrend properly, even if i delete western part of norhtrend. And that may make me to add Kul Tiras as faction when i add Nerzhul, Drakari and Gilneas. But Broken Isles seems like too much to me.
About Legion, they will have great events and units! I want to make every faction ingame unique and UDs ones are not an exception: CotD focus in traitor mages and the zombies they rise among with uglier creations; House Barov is a living faction with human troops (yes, that means that if CotD fights close to Barov, they will be able to rise his ally deads into battle, since UDs doesnt generate a dead body, is a nice coop) and later some ghosts and ghouls (after plague); when Nerzhul is added, he will be the strongest UD faction with a joint of Vrykuls and Nerubians (he needs to destroy them before being able to use them, Nerzhul cant go to Lord before the plague attacks) and finally, ur loved legion.
As legion u start with Tichondrius and Malganis. You will use Malganis to plague Lordaeron, what would mean that u can use zome zombies; but your main fortress is Draktharon, a fallen Drakari fortress, what means there u can rise some undead ice trolls, also, if u manage to summon the legion, u will be able to recruit several demons: fel hounds, infernals and doomguards. To bolster your uds armies.
Exactly SomeoneStoleXardas, of course i will need to balance it and check things (and i hope u all would help me). But it can be done, and it will be done somehow... "by itself". You say that the way to balance it, is reducing the food cap of the huge team (alliance) and i agree, but one of the game features is that u get food cap from holdings across the map. What means that: more factions in the same terrain=less food cap. Summarizing, if the Horde controls X land, he will have all that pop to increase his army, but if the alliance had to share that land between tons of guys, they would have got much less troops per army. Also, alliance needs money to recruit armies, and to get money they need farms. Farms will be the objective of Uds, so Alliance will lose income; also plagued farms becomes enemy ones and will spawn zombies to attack the alliance, what means Alliance losing troops, time, money and maybe workers or other buildings. And finally, the blighted areas are hard to remove, the alliance wont be able to build a farm over blight, so if the CotD manages to plague a farm, the Alliance is potentially losing that land to build farms (only few spritiual or light beings can remove blight, slowly, and holy land like Scarlet Monastery or Tyrs hand).
What means the Horde will have a good amount of green land to farm, with natural defences all around it, gathering its troops to smash the alliance or the trolls. Meanwhile the Alliance will have a decreasing territory to farm, surrounded by enemies and with enemies inside their kingdoms. Alliance will have to cooperate hard to get the victory.
The best option agaisnt the horde, is to defeat them before they free all interment camps and settle in Arathi. Once they manage to do it, they will be strong enough to survive.
Greetings to everyone!
Ok guys, i think this would be the final map:
To get this map i followed the following "design pathing":
- Kul Tiras is an ally of Therenas after the Second war, he didnt leave him as Gilneas did. On the contrary, he helped against the orcs uprising, he helped against the Scourge, Daelin kept the coasts of Lordaeron safe from undeads, and Daelin chased the orcs when they stole the Lordaeron fleet in Southshore. So yes, Kul Tiras should be in.
- Scourge (Nerzhul, Frozen Throne) would have to unity the peoples of Northrend. His army is based on vrykuls, who adore the LK as a god. And also with Nerubians, since even if the plague doesnt affect them, he can rise them as undeads once dead. And Malgnais will control DrakTharon and the stuff Arthas-related. With the Trolls in their settlement... I had a BIG empty spot in Stormy Peaks, that lead me to fill it with who live there: Yogg Saron, who controls Loken and is allied with Helya, both of them ruling the Iron Dwarves, Iron Vrykul and Kvaldir.
- Northrend is going to have "frozen shore" at the start of the game. So no one can sail to there to invade. Till the plague is launched. This has an explanation, fits lore and gameplay. Why no one ever went to Northrend, but after the war it seemed so easy to colonize? Simple. The LK used his power to hide himself and his land from Dalaran and Highborne mages to keep his plan safe, but once he unleashed the plague, he rised the veil and expanded his will to control all the undeads of lordaeron. In game, this will mean that the first mins of game u will have a battle in Northrend with the LK trying to control it, the Drakkari defending it, and Yogg-Saron corrupting it.
- But this gave another problem, I cant add another "good guy" (Kul Tiras) with no enemies to fight, it would be boring to kul tiras and balance breaking for the enemeis of the Alliance. So... Who could fight Kul Tiras? I was adding a new Alliance faction and new faction: old gods, so i felt the Trolls were staying behind. So the answer came alone: Zandalar. But I dont like to have a 1 vs 1, as i did in Northrend or Arathi i prefer a 1 vs 1 vs 1, since its easier to balance (the 2 weakers join vs the stronger). So who could i add to the battle for the sea with Zandalar and Kul Tiras? Easy, Nzoth, he is around there, Nagas were in Lordaeron after the second war attacking Southshore or helping Highborne and this way i dont leave Yogg-Saron alone. Now i have my 1 vs 1 vs 1.
- Also, i added Dun Modr just to allow sailing under Gilneas. I want to allow everyone to sail across the world without any problem. And having no Thandol Brdige and a great sea under Thandol valley would have been weird .
If you see anything weird, wrong, impasable, blocked, whatever, please, tell me.
Also, do u think i should make Zandalar and Kul Tiras a bit bigger? (wont increase map borders).
Note: Top right corner and bottom right one would be used to place trigger stuff, heroes, or building controlers.
I want to have the design of the map ended before starting to map so i have everything properly sized and predesigned to dont commit fails and have to redo things or create them weird when i notice i have not enough room.
Dont worry, i wont try to create all this at once. It will take time. As i said at first, i want to design "how all would be once ended" and then start part by part.
First release, Souther Lordaeron: Arathi, Hillsbrad, south Silverpine and Alterac.
- Focused in the Horde uprising feature. Would you be able to stop the Horde?
- Full Dalaran, full horde and part of Barov, Dwarves, Jintha'Alor and Lordaeron.
Second release, Central Lordaeron: Tirisfal Glades, Western Lordaeron and Hinterlands.
- Focused in the plague of the CotD.
- Full First Legion (Arthas), ending of Barov, Dwarves and Jintha'Alor and part of Lordaeron. NO elven lodge.
Third release, North Lordaeron: Northren Lordaeron, Eastern Lordaeron and Arthas event in Northrend (what is malganis in the map).
- Focused in the chain of Arthas to kill Malganis and get Frostmourne.
- Full Malganis, full Silver Hand and end of Lordaeron. NO elven lodge.
Fourth release, Quethalas: Quelthalas and Zul Aman.
- Focused in the eternal war between highborne and trolls.
- Full Quelthalas, lodges in lordaeron and hinterlands and full Zul Aman.
Fifth release, Cold War: End Northrend.
- Focused in the war for Northrend that the LK does agaisnt all the living in the continent to prepare his eternal reign in Lordaeron.
- Full Scourge (Nerzhul) and Zul Drak. NO Yogg Saron.
Sixth release, Islands: Zandalar and Kul Tiras.
- Focused in the war for the seas.
- Full Kul Tiras and Zandalar. NO Nzoth.
Seventh: Old Gods.
- Focused in the bad beings in the world.
- Full Yogg Saron and Nzoth factions.
- Arthas being able to turn into a DK and betray to join the evil faction.
- Jintha'Alor leaving the troll empire and become Raventusk tribe to serve the Horde.
- Highborne raging for loses and turn into Blood elves, being able to join the horde.
- Arugal, a mage from Dalaran is worried of not being able to stop the Scourge invasion in Lordaeron and release the worgen. Dalaran get a huge army of strong worgen but after certain time they dissapear/turn feral and u lose Arugal. If Dalaran falls u can become Gilneas, if u released the worgen before that swap, u can be worgen gilneas.
- I have other paths tought but i wont list them here since this are the first i would create. And since u can see, there is much work to do already . Also, this doesnt mean i would add the paths after all the seventh releases, just when i "have the mood" to add them instead of new land and faction (or u demand them more).
4 heroes at start for Lorderon give them really big advantage. Imo you should make Galen demi which become hero on 2 conditions, Thoras die or Thoras reach (for example) 6 lvl. Also i would change Adelas to invanurable hero which after his loose you gain another hero (i basicly dont like him as hero and cant think rn for good exchange).
Nowadays lordy has 3: Garithos, Aedelas and Thoras.
With Thoras being one of the Best heroes ingame and his mighty sword.
Galen is a demi cause i dont think he needs more help. If once released i see he does, i could make It an hero.
Why do u think lordy needs big advantage?
What do u mean with "invanurable" hero?
Aedelas is in cause he is the most important guy in that area by lore. He is the leader of all the internament camps and the fight around there is based around them. Also is the nemesis of Thrall.
And btw, according to lore, Aedelas was a GREAT warrior and leader. He is just the opposite of Garithos: his father was a traitor so he had to work harder than anyone to be promoted. Once and again, till being one of top lordy generals. A drunkard, yes, cruel when drunk? Ofc, but also a great general.
Now u can imagine why garithos ended as great marshall, there was none else
But as i said, my idea is that if u lose durnholde, he dies.
Replace him when dead? Maybe. But the point is, with who? Lordy has few known nobles, generals or warriors. Since most of them were knights and so served in the silver hand, or were in arthas first legion. I may end giving them alexandros mograine or something. Since silver hand has much more heroes than wich i may give them.
Pd: The Horde roster is already finished (still need to decide casters spells). I will post it soon
Ok, here you have the first faction preview. Share your toughts frrely, so i can know what do u think about how im designing the game. The earlier i set a base, the better, since i could work on next factions based in better balanced stuff.
Orgrimm Doomhammer, warchief of the Horde, has fallen in battle. Upon his death, Thrall has been chosen as the new Warchief and he, to honor his fallen friend and master, has built Hammerfall in the internment camp where he died. Now, the new Warchief has to attack and destroy all the rest of the internment camps to free all the orcs and assemble a mighty Horde able to get a safe home in this human world. Lok'thar ogar!
The Horde may be the hardest faction to play in "Fall of Lordaeron", since starts as solo faction. But will represent that faction that great players would enjoy to play. Proof everybody and yourself that with the proper tools you can defeat anyone. And the Horde will have those tools: with great movility, a great pool of units to counter the enemy, and flexibility in battle thanks to your wolf allies, the best player will be able to use attack types to defeat his enemies even with lower numbers. Also, a great shamanistic magic will support your army, this, with the point of you being inmune to the human plague, will give you the upper hand vs the humans of lordaeron.
The core and meat of all Horde Armies. A big orc armed with a big axe. They wear no heavy armor as human knights does, but they are much stronger and bulky. Have the "Lok'thar ogar" (victory or death) skill to increase their dmg dealt at the cost of reciving also more dmg. They can ride a Frostwolf to turn into Horde Marauders, with the same "style" of the Grunt, but faster and bulkier, also turning into light cavalry kind of unit. Both Marauders and Grunts can learn "Pillage" to get gold from enemy buildings.
The rear troops of any Horde army. They are not so strong as the grunts, but much more than simply peons. With a ligh leather armour and a small rounded shield, they are ready to face every filthy human could there to oppose the Horde. Will throw spears from afar (but less range than an archer), being able to envenom there with an upgrade. Also, as their stronger cousins, can ride a Frostwolf to become faster and bulkier as "Harassers". But this light cavalry unit is quite versatile, with "Mok-thorin ka!" you can order them to charge in mele combat (Raiders) to backstabb your enemy lanes, if you think your troops are in danger, you can yell "Kagh!" to command a safe retreat. The Raiders can learn "Pillage" to get gold from enemy buildings.
These orcs are "special" (or that said their mums), after living with Gromm hidden in the wilderness for years to prevent been enslaved, they have used to nature and woodlands. Wearing feathers, animal coats and wooden shields, they will throw deadly harpoons to the enemy troops, wich will perforate even the strongest human heavy armor. Also, used to hunt animals, are able to snare enemy units, even flying ones. Indeed, they have hunted Wyverns in the Hinterlands and now are able to ride them to become even deadlier and faster.
This heavy armored orc wears the looted armors of many human dead knights. Since the Horde has few armors, only the braviest and the strongest orcs can wear this kind of protection. With all their body covered in plate, this deadly orcs can use an axe and a mace to smash and slash any human could dare to face them. Has bonus vs heavy armored units and can stomp enemy fows with their great blows. He can learn "Pillage" to get gold from enemy buildings.
The Frostwolf Clan left the Horde time ago, since they refused to drink the Demon Blood. Living in Alterac Mountains they made a simbiotic deal with the Frost Wolves that lived there, and now, they have joint back to the Horde since its trying to come back to its shamanistic path. The frostwolf shamans will help their allies in battle with both protective and offensive spells:
+ Frost Amor. Asks the elements to surround an ally with a frost armor that will increase his armor.
+ Storm Shield. Summon the lighthing to create orbs of lightning around a unit, that will dmg any unit around it.
+ Nelghor. Call an ally Wild Frost Wolf that will fight alonside with him for some time before returning to Alterac with its pack.
These orcs once were Shamans, but when Guldan gave the Demon Blood to the orcs, he also started to teach them in dark magic. The Shamans embraced this new power and helped the horde to invade Azeroth. But now, they have left behind that shadowy practice and with the help of the Frostwolf Shamans they are trying to redirect their destructive and evil powers in something more nature-related:
+ Curse of the Elements. Ask the elements to blind with a flash or disturb with a gust of wind his enemy, to force him to fail his attacks.
+ Fire Shock. Launches a fire shock to an enemy unit. It wont hurt it, but will stun him for some seconds.
+ Bloodlust. Uses his magic to rally the inner strenght of the orcs of the Horde.
These orcs are the elders of the clans, always trying to protect and take care of their people. In communion with the spirits, they will always be a helping hand for any orc of the Horde. They know all the ancient traditions and will try to keep them safe along with their kind:
+ Bin mog g'thazag cha. Means "I will protect you" in orcish. The Elders joins the souls and spirits of all the orcs in the Horde to share the dmg recieved. Together we are strong.
+ Dispel. The Elder can ask the spirits and elements to clean an area of any blight on it, as any buff the enemy could have. Also damaging summons.
+ Aka'Magosh. An orcish blessing for you and your people. The Horde Elder increases a lot the HP regeneration of an orc.
War machine created by the orcs in their factories. Usefull to destroy human buildings.
Quick wolf with no bonus dmg and taken as light cavalry. Can be used to explore, backstab or to be rided by orcs to improve their stats.
Flying beast able to attack only other flying units. Can explore over mountains or be used by Harpooners to ride and kill from the sky.
The Horde has 2 kind of elites: Frostwolf Champion and Warsong Champion. You can have 4 of each one at the same time.
The Horde has 1 Demi hero: Nazgrel. He was a great warrior and Thrall's commander. Later, he was put in charge of intenal security.
HEROES (Still working in their skills).
Thrall, Warchief of the Horde.
Drek'thar. Chieftain of the Frostwolf.
Gromm Hellscream. Chieftain of the Warsong.
+ When you start the game, the new chosen Warchief must choose his second: Drek'thar and the Frostwolf for a more "spiritual" horde; or Gromm and his Warsong for a more warmonger one. With Frostwolf you improve: Frostwolf, Frostwolf Shaman, Reformed Warlock and Horde Elder. With Gromm you improve: Demolisher, Grunt, Spearthrower and Horde Harpooner. The wolf-riding orcs are always improved, since they get stats from both the infantry unit and the frostwolf. In late game you can get the other upgrade too.
+ When you destroy all the internment camps you Unlock: Horde Warlord.
+ When you conquer Southshore, you steal an alliance fleet there so you can send some orcs to explore the west. Since Thrall doesnt go with them, most of them die in the Darkspear Islands with the Sea Witch. But some of them manage to reach Kalimdor and come back to show Thrall the beasts they have founded there: the Kodos. You unlock: Kodo Drummerer and Towered Kodo.
An orc riding a Kodo, using two Drumms to inspire the nerby horde troops. Counts as Heavy Cavalry.
A Kodo with a battle tower built in his back, gives the Horde armies the long ranged dmg they were lacking. Counts as Heavy Cavalry.
PD: All this units and their skills are already done and works ingame.
I have attached several pics in the previous post (cant put them inside the text, idk why or how). So u can see the units ingame and their icons
If you have any problem with something, comment it with me. If u think u could have a better icon for a unit, u are welcome to mp me to send it.
All units and icons not from vanilla have been found in The Hiveworkshop, and once the map is ended i will give credit to all the creators. Without their work these kind of maps would be imposible. All hail the modelers!