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Is it fair to call Warcraft A Tolkein Copy pasta/Cliche ?

Discussion in 'Lordaeron: The Foremath' started by Spectator, Jun 6, 2018.

  1. SUNSTRIDER
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    SUNSTRIDER

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    In LOTR, Orcs are just plain evil ugly creatures with zero personality and any sort of depth. In Warcraft they are their own people with their own diverse needs, interests, emotions, AN ACTUAL SOCIETY. lol For me Warcraft is better. :-) Despite some of it's flaws. Even the bad guys in Warcraft have something interesting about them, well mostly, not like Deathwing who is just this evil, mad and angry dragon out of the blue.
  2. Spampolice
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    Spampolice The Soulflayer Shaman

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    You all write way too much and I'm too busy celebrating sweden day. so, in short.

    no.

    Tolkien did not invent "classic" fantasy stemming from, in part, norse mythology. Warcraft is a blatant Warhammer ripoff, it was intended to be a Warhammer game but they couldn't get a license for it.
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  3. EmperorFawful
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    EmperorFawful Gatsby Guardian Website Admin

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    Thing is though that Blizzard can't be inspired by a thing, people didn't knew about either how it would eventually look like except for George Lucas.
    The entire Jedi Order thing in the Expanded Universe was unpolished and barely resembled anything what they actually created in Episode I-III.
    And as mentioned before, the Paladins of the Silver Hand were already created in 1995. Way before Star Wars I launched.

    While for Arthas/Anakin, I don't see any paralells + Blizzard was faster with Warcraft III, compared to what they did in Episode III.
    All what was known about Darth Vader was, that he was Anakin Skywalker, that he was once a jedi, that he participated in the Clone Wars and betrayed the order (also he was a little boy, who does podracer stuff). That's all they had before 2002 as a backstory of Anakin. The entire struggle, which he had with the rules of the Jedi Order was material they released in Episode II and III, thus no public knowledge at the time.
    When Warcraft III was released, they introduced us to Arthas as the Prince of Lordaeron, who was also a scholar of Uther Lightbringer, while he also was in love with Jaina Proudmoore - eventually though his destiny was to hunt down the Dreadlord Mal'ganis in order to safe Lordaeron while becoming a Death Knight of Ner'zhul in the end, thus resulting in the murder of King Terenas and the Fall of Lordaeron.

    Completely unique story arc, where I don't see the Star Wars inspiration, judged by the time.

    Eh, not really.
    The whole Light VS Darkness conflict ist pretty much a religious motive, which fantasy autors often use.
    The most iconic example would be God's eternal conflict with the Devil over mankind - pretty much Good VS Evil.
    Star Wars isn't the only franchise, which tends to implement Light and Darkness as forms of magic, one is able to wield.
    Warhammer did here as well the same thing, so did Tolkien. The concept of Necromancy is also far more older than you might imagine - basically all you list is stuff, where Star Wars got inspired by local myths and religious motives.

    Not really.
    In Warcraft it's magic, granted to everyone who feels devoted enough to serve the path of the Light (making no difference whether these moral intentions are wrong or right as you can see by the example of the Scarlet Crusade),
    while in Star Wars it's Midi-Chloreans, which grant these powers to few chosen ones, but the way how you utilize them define whether you're a Jedi, a Sith, a Dark Jedi or a Grey Jedi.

    If you want to argue on basic knowledge, you can say "Yeah, it's the same."
    but on closer inspection you would realize it's not.
    Gandalf is neither a Jedi, because his magic wand can cast light, which damages the forces of darkness.


    To the rest I can agree btw.

    And regarding the CinemaSins-critique:
    Keep in mind that CinemaSins is satire and produced by a guy, who pretty much does this whole 'nit-picking' for the purpose of entertainment by listing usual tropes or stuff, people might criticize on movies. So any judgement of his sides regarding the Warcraft movie isn't really to be taken serious. He can be as uninformed to certain topics, which involve the deeper lore of a movie as the regular 08/15 person, who sees Warcraft for the first time.
    Else you would have to wonder why Star Wars and Harry Potter feature so many successful movies, when they're apparently full of errors and mistakes.
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  4. Spectator
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    Spectator Adapt or Die Donator

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    That's the whole point of the movie tho? It should be also for the people who never seen/heard about Warcraft. Playing Warcraft 3 or WoW should not be a prerequisite for watching Warcraft. Either wise it's not a movie but a long cinematic story advertising and hyping the existing fans for the game.


    Remember the timing of a WoW movie matters also. For example even the original trilogy which is considered the best, is quite cheesy if you watch it, today and has a lot of errors. However for it's time it was fine and the audience's standards was not as high as it is today. Releasing a move similar to Original Star Wars with the same amount of errors would be disaster if you do it now. It's not like anybody likes the errors or mistakes, people are just willing to forgive it, if there is a good story (e.g Luke fucking his sister or Storm troopers being blind and useless). Same goes for Harry Potter, the first ones were quite cheesy but as time passed the execution of the later ones became much better.

    This can be attributed to Star War's prequels failure as well. See originals story was not necessary better than prequels as both offered a great story. People were just less forgive full for George Lucas's cheesy and error-full direction and cuts since the industry has evolved and the audience standards became higher. Obviously there a lot of other reasons prequels failed too.

    Meanwhile however a great execution and a terrible story does not work either. For example Force Awakens and Last Jedi were both directed and executed brilliantly for their purpose. Problem is the story and the message was just lame and not really expanding the Star Wars saga. This is why there is a divide in the audience. You had no more Gay dialogue or direction of prequels but you longer had a good story with Disney.
  5. EmperorFawful
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    EmperorFawful Gatsby Guardian Website Admin

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    And it fulfilled its role to be honest.
    Watched the movie myself, liked it,
    cousin of mine, who had nothing to do with Warcraft watched it as well and she also liked it, even though she admitted that she barely understood a lot of stuff.


    What you say is quite true.
    When I watched Episode VII I was disappointed to see a pointless reboot of Episode IV, only in worse and with the most underwhelming antagonist I witnessed so far in the Star Wars franchise.
    They really should have turned the Thrawn-Trilogy into a script with slight differences to the original and filmed it instead. Abrams ruined the franchise for me already in some way, but well... another topic for another thread + I need to watch Episode VIII anyways. From what I heard though, it becomes worse.
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  6. ponasozis
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    ponasozis SOVIET Angry marine Brigand

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    I mean silverhand order is pretty much less extreme version of followers of sigmar
  7. Spectator
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    Spectator Adapt or Die Donator

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    Also while we are at It I recommend people here to Watch Shannara Chronicles Series.

    First of all it's kinda of trash of a TV series with meh acting, meh story, meh budget, Terrible Music (mainstream vocal music does not go well with Fantasy FFS! Tho there few epic music themes in there) and overall meh. In short it's kinda like MA Show meant for teens which doesn't make sense. However i think watching it might be a good idea cause Shannara Chronicles is basically the only "High Fantasy" TV series in existence. Tho Season 2 is even more trash.

    A lot of people think A Fantasy TV series is impossible to make due to how expensive it will be and you'll be surprised how much the team managed to get done despite the low budget. However with the game of thrones success. We are gonna see the Wticher TV series and the Lord of Rings TV series I have good feelings that high Fantasy genre has a bright future. Specially with CGI becoming better and more viable.
  8. EmperorFawful
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    EmperorFawful Gatsby Guardian Website Admin

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    Read the books. Way better.
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  9. Spectator
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    Spectator Adapt or Die Donator

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    Kinda give it a try, tbh I see a lot of potential with it and there a lot of good stuff in it. I just don't think the TV series had the best execution.
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  10. Elbadruhel
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    Elbadruhel

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    Warcraft orcs has NOTHING to do with lotr ones. NOTHING.
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