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Legacy Update #3: Magni Bronzebeard, The King of Khaz Modan.

Discussion in 'Lordaeron: The Aftermath' started by Krotos, Jan 10, 2017.

  1. ilusioner
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    ilusioner Cause things shall proceed as foreseen Map Maker

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    If you're going to issue the units to just run, then players can easily stop those 'feared' units order, or are you actually using something more fancy for the fear triggers? Also the 350 AoE is quite big, if I'm correct it's 2x the flamestrike AoE. But honestly hard to say without seeing it ingame.


    Hmmm, I wonder how's that even possible to trigger without adding event 'Generic Unit takes damage'. All the orb effects does not qualify for 'unit starts effect of an ability' so they won't run the trigger upon attacking. While other stuff is rather lagfree, if you are implementing unit takes damage, then it can have disastrous effects on map's stability. How exactly are you planning to implement this mechanic? (Else than that the number simply have to be balanced after seeing him in gameplay)



    Once again how can you deal damage to enemy units when the hero is target via a DOT damage (Entangling roots for example), or something similar to that? I'm not entirely sure how can you even detect the damage of the spell cast unless it's something connected to the spellpower system you mentioned earlier. If so, will it affect regular spells such as unit's firebolt aswell, or just heroes spells? Else than that the scaling is rather bad, like you get the spell, -5 seconds, -10 seconds and -5 seconds. You should consider making it more... even?

    Else than that, solid spell.

    This thingy needs a damage cap for sure. I can also see a pretty easy way to kill enemy heroes with it. If you are able to drop magni just behind enemy hero, you can cast this spell, launching enemy hero inside your whole army, making it unable to cast spells and have -10 armor, which is kinda fully disabling the hero. It might be abused when used correctly by experienced players. In normal games it should be alrightish. Perhaps instead of damage I'd go with a lower cooldown and ATKSP/MS/armor reduction for units to disable them rather than damage.

    Summing up, imo it's a solid hero overhaul. The numbers have to be tested ingame, and some tweaks made to ensure that it can't be abused. However the most concerning thing is the 'W' spell trigger run.
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  2. Krotos
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    Krotos The Lore Judge. Brigand Map Maker

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    1. Fancier - unit control will be completely lost. Default Flamestrike AoE is 200 in melee and varies in LTA between 200 and 300 (it's on more than 1 hero). This spell is centered around Magni, so it's not as big as it seems.


    2. There are two ways of doing this:
    - Granting Magni an orb of lightning effect upon cast, which is a hidden ability on him and using a custom silence as a released spell (orb of lightning allows you to create a bunch of insane on-hit effects such as silences, rain of chaos, infernos etc) to debuff around the target hit. The ability gets removed once the debuff wears off. Simple, but buggy.
    - As long as Magni has a buff and finishes an attack, cast a debuff with a dummy unit with target of his attack as the center of ability. Super easy to control, lag-free and vey simple.
    3. There are a couple of ways to do it:
    - Create a spell hashtable that has every single spell in the game. Very ineffective, laggy and heavy on resources.
    - Run a 3-variable condition that checks for damage instances, damage source type (attack, spell, other) and damage type (physical, magical, pure, universal). Reflect it back as a sort of massive lotus orb from dota 2. Laggy if run incorrectly and will go haywire.
    - Run an event where Magni is damaged by an ability. Add variables to check damage dealt, its type and the caster of the ability. Deal said damage to all enemies in AoE via a trigger and give it some fancy visual, put the passive ability on CD once it happens. Most stable, easy to modify, very easy to clean up, spot the issues in and to stabilise.
    - If all else fails, just run a trigger that activates only when a unit casts a spell on Magni and have the spell be cast via a dummy to everyone in the AoE. Lazy option.​
    I'm afraid of its power and thus want to be careful with it. It's a really strong ability.

    4. The cap will most likely be needed, but I want to see where exactly it will break first, e.g. what value will break the spell. As for that trick - you risk your unrevivable hero getting murdered before he gets it off and it's not something you'll see often - I think rewarding experienced Dwarf players is something that should be encouraged. I opted for damage because I want him to have at least one way of damaging units and thus being a threat, even if it's on an ultimate. Making him into a pure debuffer with no damage at all would leave him as a little boring in the eyes of many. This way I can also encourage more rewarding plays by increasing potential damage through a riskier action. Damage can always be reduced or - as you said - capped.

  3. ilusioner
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    ilusioner Cause things shall proceed as foreseen Map Maker

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    Orb of lightning can only be used for abilities that have either 'Unit target' or 'Unit or Point Target'. To my knowledge you can't create OoL that will trigger point-based spells such as silence, rain of fire etc. There's also the bug with the spell not triggering when unit isn't issued an order, but that's something minior when it comes to heroes.
    Edit: You could use 'Acid Bomb' instead of silence, which will do the job by decreasing ATKSP.

    As for the second point, what kind of event will you use for this trigger? I know it's very easy to do, but my question is how will the trigger 'detect' the moment when hero executes his auto-attack. As far as I know, the only way to do so is via event 'Generic unit takes damage', which as I stated before can cause disastrous effects on map stability.


    With the current skillset it'll be very simple to just use zeppelin, bring the hero behind enemy, land it and use the ultimate. Should he fail to do so, he has other abilities to save his buns, as the skillset you designed will allow him to do so. (Fear + push away will surely allow him to escape). I also doubt that enemy will be able to aim the zeppelin in time to stop this move. Honestly it's a no-risk move as long as you have your cooldowns.​
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    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
  4. Tdmien123
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    Tdmien123 Champion of Darkness Brigand

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    So with these new spells coming, lats say if dwarves like camp ironforge and bunker it up with Dwarven keep towers, its already hard to take that city down.

    Krotos question: Have you played Dragonmaw against a Dwarf rushing you almost at the start of the game?
  5. Hawk
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    Hawk The White Wolf Map Maker

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    Have you played with the new Heroes for DMC and Dwarves?
    You can't have a valid argument to something you can't even test and don't even know the state of the other faction, as DMC Mor'ghor is getting a rework too and a lot of bug fixes as well which will make them stronger imo. >->
    Only time will tell guys.
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  6. Arlt
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    Arlt Dictator Perpetuo Website Admin

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    People are allowed to speculate. :-)
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  7. Hawk
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    Hawk The White Wolf Map Maker

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    Im just saying its pointless. I don't see a reason for complaining without playing the actual map.
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  8. Mangros
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    Mangros Kemalist Brigand

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    Nothing can stop the new magni.He will finish what old magni started.
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    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
  9. Mesis
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    Mesis Brigand

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    Since Heroes are a deciding factor? Lets say they both start without Heroes, that should balance it out right?
    No idea About what bug fixes are you talking about but to my knowledge this is 2 patches away.

    I bet the Dragonmaw didnt counter Rush then and what was Horde doing?
  10. EmperorFawful
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    EmperorFawful Gatsby Guardian Website Admin

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    Oh right, looking forward the DMC - main hero overhaul. :-)
    Though I hope, we can switch Nek'rosh with Mor'ghor. Damn overseer usurped power from the true Azeroth DMC-warchief! ^^

    I might object here, as by this point you grant the opinion of the map maker more power, even though he might be wrong.
    There would be no room for critique at all. And a good map lives from the feedback of its community - nothing is worse for a map maker than nobody talking about his map at all, as no map is flawless.
    I agree that people can overcritizise stuff and speculate about things, which won't be the case in the actual game then. Yet there's no reason to accuse users of having no clue at all.
    I mean, you neither have played a version of LTA with all overhauled heroes in the actual release version and can only speculate for yourself as well, so why would you be better than him? Kinda confuses me. ^^
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