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Discussion in 'Lordaeron: The Aftermath' started by TheKaldorei, Jan 15, 2018.
No, I do not think anyone did.
and winterborn 3 paths so good
Wait a second @TheKaldorei Idea of Broken Isles does good actually on a second thought.
Add sorta like small Islands to map with creeps. after 10mins Teal gets a small base there and demon portal. This demon portal is Invulnerable.
Advantages of this:
- Now there is invulnerable gate Teal is no longer immortal. You cannot be full on cancer as Teal and kill all gates to troll all game. Why this was allowed in first place always bugged me anyways..............
- Teal has sorta a small base to go back to when losing to OJ in outland so he is not fully out. Now you can actually balance OJ vs Teal fight so Teal is no longer OP in comparison cause of Excuse of oh if Teal loses the fight he out of the game while OJ can find allies.
- more Islands, more macro opportunity.
No need to clutter the map with more stuff. All the islands and Northrend and Lordaeron are all already too close to each other... Map has enough of the terrain in it already, IMO.
Anything that happens in Broken Islands after Illidan collapses the tomb in with the power of Eye of Sargeras is WoW Legion timeline, too far off for my liking.
Still gotta add a way so Teal cannot become untouchable and full on cancer by killing off all his gates and then CP sniping and becoming full on Cancer!
and No saying just kick the player who does that since its against a rules is as fucking stupid as its retarded. Since there are no set Rules by editor for playing this game. Might wanna add somewhere something like "Oh if ur Teal don't kill off your gates and CP snipe people since its against rules as we could not think of a way for Teal not to be untouchable "
BuildingsBuildings are probably the most overlooked feature in the W3 strategy games and we are going to discover why.
First of all, what actually is a building? An immobile entity.
This immobile entity has many categories such as production, defense, food, tech.
Now in LTA 99% of buildings have fortified armor. Fortified armor has an unique ability which makes AI not prioritize those entities in combat. (You could even give this property to hero armor to avoid random "aiming")
Another important factor is that the only dmg type that counters fortified is siege and somewhat chaos with others being relatively okay(I don't have access to exact numbers) which is in my opinion completely wrong.
I think that the best dmg types against fortified should be siege, obviously, with around 300% (or rather ability that would deal 3x more dmg to buildings), normal with 90-100%, magic and chaos with 25-33% and Pierce with 10%.
I believe this would allow more unique buildings to appear in the game and promoted a use of proper counters.
How much HP should a building have? That is a very complicated issue.
First of all we must determine the resource tax, build time, purpose of an building and balance it accordingly to it's counters.
Let's say we have 100 gold and 200 wood income a unit costs 10 gold. Unit has 500hp and 10dps and builds 10 sec.
For an example a farm. It's purpose is to provide food cap for an army. No matter how expensive and how long it takes to build we can safely say it should be relatively easy to destroy as it is expected to be in a safe location. If killing a farm is easy and impactful then this allows a strategy to disrupt food cap.
With this out of the way we can say a farm can have 500hp, it will take 50 seconds to destroy by 1 unit. Relatively reasonable time, so if we make a farm cost 10g it sounds okay and balanced.
However things start to break apart by the expected number of units. If for example you start with 30 units which is considered very low, 75 medium and 125+ as big you have to scale things correctly.
If we would balance around the weakest army, the farm would be theroeticly dead in mere 2 seconds.
Now you either have to buff the HP of a building, lower the cost the match the life expectancy or increase repair speed.
Other buildings may cost as much as farm but they should at least have double the durability varying from type to type.
Towers are a bit odd and special case. You should not treat them as buildings but as stationary units.
Taking the previous example from farms, a tower with 1000hp, 20dps and 10 gold cost sounds reasonable.
However for example in games such as WIP we might see a tower having 500hp with 75dps and in castle fight we might see a tower with 2000hp and 20dps. As their purpose varies.
Are towers supposed to hold by themselves? Are they meant to kill units or just hold as a meat shield? Do you want towers to be useful only against a rush? And many more questions.
Now the main topic (lul) - how to make buildings actually unique:
There is currently some uniqueness and that is pretty much only the spiked defense for orc factions. Nonetheless the actual impact is minimal.
Orc factions (mostly just Horde):
Spiked defense - pretty self-explanatory, melee units take dmg back. The number instead of flat value could be % (or both) and as an addition this ability could function as immolation aura.
The heavy>fortified upgrade from standard w3
- Kinda pointless upgrade that currently only buffs towers in dmg and armor since orc towers start fortified.
I would make all orc towers start with heavy armor, with this upgrade transforming them into fortified. In addition all already fortified buildings would get flat dmg reduction from melee attacks.
As for towers themselves:
Cheap, easy to destroy, high attack speed with good dmg, with poison ability, average range and long sight radius and minimal range
Possibility to Garrison ranged units to increase dmg
expensive, sturdy, low attack range, low sight radius, no minimal range, taunt ability, ability to Garrison melee units.
Fortify upgrade - currently only a HP and armor upgrade for all buildings. I would add a flat dmg reduction from all ranged attacks
- cheap, relatively durable, high sight range, magic sentry, minimal range
Can Garrison ranged units to add attack
- expensive, durable, slow attack speed, average range, low sight range, multishot (4) ability, minimal range
- very expensive, durable, very slow attack speed, high single target dmg (no splash), long range with slow dodgeable projectile, minimal range
- expensive, relatively slow attack speed, almost no dmg compared to now, very long range (bit longer than siege), feedback (Mana burn), magic sentry
- similar to arrow tower
Undead buildings would have the lowest durability out of all other races
Spirit armor - reduce the dmg from siege, magical and chaos attacks by %
- average attack speed, bouncing (3) attack, each attack would reduce armor for a second, ?stackable?
- okay as it is, I would add splash at most
We must not also forget about other buildings such as farms and production ones. They can have simple abilities, farm an aoe healing aura, sprit lodge an aoe Mana restoration, options are limitless.
Kinda sad we don't have any NE type buildings, they could have an insane hp Regen and of course the ability to move and attack
Let me know your opinions on the topic
An interesting topic !
I have things planned for buildings on the 3rd patch, current plan being Unit Patch -> Hero/Elite patch -> Economic patch
There many good ideas but I don't think I'll implement them all, especially buildings that require unit garrisons, I don't think it should be necessary for all factions to manage that.
The food cap is certainly a thing that is currently not part of the gameplay in LTA as all farms cost nothing, are built very fast and provide a lot of food. They could be made a bit harder to obtain, but I don't want it to be as big of a thing as Vanilla WC or SC either. I'm not even sure I want that in the game, but we'll see.
I don't mind there being more tower diversity, it could add some strategy, I'll think more about that.
Fortified armor currently has the values :
Chaos deals 105%
Hero does 55%
Magic does 70%
Normal does 75%
Piercing does 40%
Siege does 165%
Spells do 120%
I actually never noticed spells have bonus damage against buildings before, shouldn't be that way I think.
There will already be another Island on the next version that Kaldorei made, and I'm not even sure that one is a good idea.
The map has enough of that right now.
You don't have to worry about Teal, the solution to the cancer is coming, you just have to be patient !
Well my ideas are
-give dwarves events for defeating his enemies
actually by fighting dmc u get 1 demi and 2 gryphons, its not sooo much but k
I'd like to see something like bonus for destroying jintha or karagath/blackrock, for example you can forge another artifact in IF or u just get it - dwarves finally will have point in fighting for aerie
still it will be nice to see some path for dwarves that focuses on north that will block dark iron path
-pink should be able to make ogres (Thats bound to alterac and mug'thol) in his barracks - its really boring if u need to send them via ship (to northrend for example)
-give blue's FT more starting hp , becouse legion can early research astral walk and aim FT before its get repaired - if he doesnt notice, (it wont change anything more coz anub can be summoned before repair ><)
Pretty sure there is (or was) a reward of 300gold and lumber for destroying Kargath. Its also not like other factions recieve any rewards for killing dwarves