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LTF 0.35

Discussion in 'Lordaeron: The Foremath' started by Marshmalo, Dec 15, 2018.

  1. Koganesaga
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    Koganesaga

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    Ok a quick wiki check does in fact not have any anecdotes of Terenas himself being an accomplished warrior, let alone a paladin. That notion seems to exist because of various WC maps, and shall be disregarded for the suggestion. We could try some of the lesser recognized paladins who were strong but ultmately written off because arthas wrecked their asses when he returned, or we can change how the hero would perform. Terenas did manage the alliance alliance during the second war and personally commanded the siege of Lordaeron, saving the alliance from total destruction. Maybe instead of the warrior aspect, we play on his strategist side and make him a powerful commander type hero who leads the alliance? In his old age, he was becoming more infirm, but I say lets have his candle burn brightest as it's about to go out. Keep the level increase to warrant the risk, and give him some fun abilities:

    1: Tears of the king- Terenas weeps for his son and kingdom, moving his troops through compassion. Restore health and mana to forces in a large area (larger area of effect than similar abilities, slightly smaller amount restored, high mana cost)
    2: Cry of the Lion- Terenas's fury bellows throughout the battlefield, inspiring his troops. Buffs attack damage and speed for troops
    3: Political Leverage- Terenas uses whatever favors he has to call on troops from all nobles and houses of lordaeron. Timed summons of 4/8/12/16 of high strength units (lordaeron footmen, silverhand paladins, etc)
    4: Wrath of the Alliance- Terenas orders an organized bombardment of the target area. Large AoE strike dealing a large amount of over time to units in the cast area.
    Passive ability: Pressence of the King- The people of the alliance are honored to be the presence of their leader. Units gain +8 armor in 1000 range of Terenas.
    And the interesting one; Uncle Lothar wants you: Terenas urges all able bodies to fight for the alliance. Targets a buildings and gains 4-5 permanent units depending on which alliance player is selected. This means he could recruit archers from the rangers, priests from high elves, geomancers from dalaran, warriors from the dwarves, knights from the silverhand, etc. These units would also change based on what the faction was at the time. Example being that if silverhand contacted draenei, he would get elekks instead. These units would have their special abilities unlocked (like frost arrows for archers) but not the faction upgrades (like the range increase for said archers). Yes marsh, I enjoy causing you pain with my annoying to trigger suggestions.

    To balance this, there would need to be an equally great loss. Besides dg being forced to go new lordaeron if he dies, other factions which normally would have a choice in paths would also be forced. For example, If Terenas dies, the elves lose faith in the alliance and withdraw. They would be forced to play by themselves, or find new allies. Uther would also die if he hasn't already and silverhand would be forced to go scarlet (would still have the window to go argent if desired). There could be a vote to allow Terenas to be fielded to prevent dg from using him if the alliance doubts his competence. At least 3 players on the alliance (at least one must be Dg himself) must type -rally after Uther has informed the king of Arthas's treason to summon this hero unit.

    An alternative to the faction movement penalties could be a debuff on the whole of the alliance until the capital is retaken after his death of -3 armor (call is something like broken will or dispirited). The more thought I put into it, the more I like this option. This could even be incorporated into the game in general as an incentive to defend the alliance's capital. It would make taking back Lordaeron and more importantly holding it after the reclamation, so much more vital for stubborn alliance loyalists. As the debuff would only apply to alliance factions, this might really push the alliance to make changes once things go downhill rather than just turtling one city for half an hour and dragging things out. That or at least speed up the inevitable.
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2019
  2. Kamran
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    Kamran AKA Vergil

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    Maybe i wasn't clear or you haven't played dg before but first of all you can't go king arthas unless alliance is broken so it isn't a powerhouse. it is an alternative event to help alliance instead of 100% destroying it since when alliance is broken you are already pretty weak. second of all everyone would go scourge if it didn't crash because Lordaeron path currently is so underpowered and unfun. King arthas should add power instead of just giving you a crown and 10 extra stats otherwise no one would choose king arthas over scourge path in a million years.
  3. Koganesaga
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    Koganesaga

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    I think you misunderstood ME; I didn't say current dg was a powerhouse, I was it shouldn't be buffed and become a powerhouse. Dg is already a fairly strong alliance player, it doesn't need any buffs, especially when the undead path still doesn't hold much appeal to many players. It's been a few weeks since i got to play so I haven't played some of the recent patches, but I'm guessing that most dgs are still staying human (if they still have arthas) even if the alliance is in death throes with just dalaran and argent left, all 3 will turtle up in dalaran, and try to ride out the legion. It's fun, if kinda scummy, to just be dg and refuse to take any outs via becoming undead or new lordaeron and just make the undeads game hell by keeping arthas. Any incentive to this idea should be frowned upon until such a time comes that undead slots are popular and dg remaining loyal becomes a serious problem.

    Edit: Frowned upon might be a tad extreme, but still you get what I mean. I'd rather not add water to the grease fire that is the general undead problem.
  4. TerenasMenethil
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    TerenasMenethil Warden of the South

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    I am sorry but DG is the worst alliance faction. I used to main it but damn, apart defending the capital you are nearly useless. Let's face it, he may have a lot of heroes but most of them are unrevivable and not so useful at all. When human DG is against me, I just see his army and his heroes as free exp and something that is not threatening.

    And even when Alliance is broken and DG unlock king arthas...Well, nothing change at all. Yes, I know that DG was intended to betray, but maybe you should REALLY buff him when Alliance is broken (mean that two players already betrayed so DG dont need to betray). Because right now, DG and his vanilla knights (lol) are just a bunch of free exp.

    Since few weeks, you didn't see undead DG because this path is bugged and cause the game to end if triggered. But before this bug, the DG betrayal happened quite often.

    DG may be useful in early game, because he can quite easily defend the Capital. But he have no real late-game event and this is why he is so useless in late-game.
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  5. LordUTher
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    LordUTher The Lightbringer

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    I don’t think that a DG upgrade is really the solution of the problem, in the sense that DG has one of the best start of the game with a significant number of cp.
    It would be better to fully rework Human DG.
    That’s what I propose : Transform DG no longer as "Lordaeron" but as "Lordaeron Intervention Forces" and later "Humans Kingdoms"


    Silverhand has always been Lordaeron's great protector, and I think that responsibility for a strategic point like Capital City should be given to LB. Brill too. DG will keep only Andorhal and Strannbrand and Prince Arthas will start the game at Stranbrand, like RoC campaign. DG can take Alterac’s CP, Schollomance. Thus, DG could focus on protecting Lordaeron, chasing the scourge of his father's lands and the silverhand.


    For the first 20 min, DG would play the role of Lordaeron protector, certainly, weaker, but with some bonuses that we could imagine like a +300 gold and a level with the kill of gray’s chauldron before 10 mins
    We could also give another event, such as the success of the Stratholme purge before its destruction. On the other hand, if Stratholme falls, the future events that I will propose could be all locked.
    Thus, Stratholme would no longer be a "city no care", but a strategic city that would decide the future of DG in the alliance. Indeed, if Arthas failed in the culling of stratholme, it seems that the choice to join the plague. If successful to purge all houses, we can also imagine a reward in gold for DG.
    20 minutes are passed, the other events are released. No changes for Kul'tiras are needed for my eyes, apart from replacing the mediocre archers of DG by seaguards, the old units of Kul'tiras. They are good.
    But, it is the continuation of the events which interest us here.

    New events, return of old paths.

    First :
    Stromgarde's path return. Indeed, so far Stromgarde would have been invulnerable, as it was for years until the completion of this research. This research done, Stromgarde would join DG now renamed "Five Kingdoms" (as stromgarde, lordaeron, gilneas, stormwind and kul'tiras) and give new units to DG, an upgrade for knights. "Troll slayers". Trolls slayers will be knights buffed, with more damage, more def, and a self berzerker with Galen.

    Second : Gilneas' forgiveness

    In fact, this search does not remove the worgen 's path of purple, it only removes Greyman for him. This research would give Gilneas to DG, Greyman and his mens. One could imagine that the legendary Gilnean hunters join DG, replacing seaguards / archers for a gunnman with nett, an increase in damage and some abilities like poisons.

    Three : Wrath of the Lich King
    Let's not forget that the Dungeon belongs to the seventh legion of Stormwind, not the Argent Crusade.With the broken alliance, Stormwind would launch the seventh legion against the Northrend, commanded by Bolvar Fordragon. This search would give Vaillance keep, Bolvar and new half heroes for DG: 7th legion champions

    The new half-heroes would be the old black knight, rename and with a new skin.

    Four : Retake the City
    Finally, a last event could be imagined for DG. In case of taking the capital and Broken alliance with the death of Terenas Menethil (now under the control of LB) Garithos would gather what remains of Lordaeron's troops in the vicinity of Dalaran. Thus, we could consider the return of "restore Lordaeron", in my eyes, the most beautiful event of the game and the ability to make lordaeron's footman in case of lordaeron restored.


    So, DG would no longer be Lordaeron. DG would be the representation of the old alliance. DG would be all humanity. Bolvar for Stormwind, Daelin for Kul'tiras, Garithos for the remain of Lordaeron and Galen for Stromgarde with Greyman for Gilneas.

    The problem here would be the large number of heroes, however, all the events listed here are for the most part in indefensible regions facing the Legion or the Scourge (Vailliance Keep, Stromgarde) Bolvar would be unrevivable base, while Galen will be like it has always been unrevivable in case of Forsaken or with the destruction of Stromgarde. In the end, we would only have Garithos which would be full revivable. Arthas will be replaced by Genn/Daelin/or Galen with the first research, and Garithos by the second, but Garithos can back with the event : Retake the City


    Changes to other factions that DG:

    Purple:

    Genn Greyman with Arugal was an alliance off-lore, it's an opportunity to give a new hero to worgen. I also propose to remove Greyman's quest and give Crowley with the taking of Gilneas, which would be renamed accordingly and that would be revivable only as long as Purple controls Gilneas. Ivar Blood-Fang
    would be a very good choice, like rename. It would also need a reskin.

    A little worgen up would also be nice, including removing the human side of the worgen and making the worgen directly worgen, after all, here Arugal wins the war against Gilneas. Removing the 12-mile limit is also a good thing.

    Light Blue: Move Tirion to Light hope chapel with a new description: "Tirion came back to help the Silverhand, and with Ashbringer, he launched a crusade against the Scourge." The Argent Crusade "is born."

    Let's not forget that starting from this principle, all Kul'tiras buildings are invulnerable and hydromancers unavailable for DG until he has done the research. Same thing for Stromgarde.
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    Last edited: Jan 16, 2019
  6. Koganesaga
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    Koganesaga

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    It's not bad, but I do think that some of these choices should lock others or only be available with certain conditions being met. For example, if you choose to take the Gilneas path, Garithos should be unavailable, and Genn would be your new main hero. I'm pretty sure Ol' Gari wouldn't be willing to take a chance of working with a Worgen by fighting with the Gilneans (regardless of the Worgen plague spreading anymore or not) . Also the 7th legion probably wouldn't be willing to commit the resources without the support of the Argent crusade, and therefore should be locked until the event is launched (or if they choose to go onslaught, in which case maybe just let Dg gain Tirion but only get one base).

    You could also make it a sort of progression system that requires the death of secondary heroes. For example, Garithos would just be your anchor hero, the one you can't lose. After Arthas is gone, you would gain Trollbane and Stromgarde. Should he fall, you can the unlock the 7th legion and Bolvar, and then the Gilnean's for Bolvar's replacement. Kul'Tiras would be outside the progression and simply be available after the 20 min mark. Each of these heroes would just take the exp from the last to keep progression so Dg doesn't end up falling behind, while preventing him from having a huge hero pool. This method would put his maximum pool of four heroes (Garithos, Daelin, Current kingdom, and Tirion if Silverhand went Scarlet). Units would be retained as the heroes progress despite the loss of their kingdoms of origin (operate under the assumption that Garithos would refuse to allow any learning of humanity to be lost if it can be used to kill), so even as Dg is beaten, his next stage would be that much stronger. It might mean that some players would suicide kingdom and heroes right until the last to obtain the strongest possible army, but I think that should be a risk they can take, especially if some heroes are particularly powerful and their loss would be regrettable.

    I'm also not 100% sure about giving the Silverhand such massive land holdings early game. The abundance of income might make silverhand too huge a threat to undead early game. Imagine paladins with all tech done with some knights, priests, and holy arrow archers by 8 min; he could probably take gray alone. Of course speculation and reality might differ wildly. And the Silverhand was a great military power in Lordaeron, though it still paled in comparison to Lordaerons' actual military might.

    As for the Worgen, again haven't played for a while, are they still completely inferior to Dalaran? They might be more than a slight up if they're losing content to Dg.
  7. TerenasMenethil
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    TerenasMenethil Warden of the South

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    Can you retire Wretched, Forsaken and Dark Iron from this command ? They no longer make the game crash. And it's not uncommon to forget to enable the paths to betray with these factions.
  8. Necromass
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    Necromass

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    My idea would be for Stratholm to become non active similar to blues temple city until either dg or teal initiate the purge of stratholm even during which both will be given a token force alongside Malganis and Arthas both would then race to destroy the destructible homes similar to the campaign for Dg he receive gold and xp for teal he would get the undead spawns allowing him to take the city once either player captures Stratholms main building the event ends and the gates become non invulnerable. Also dgs invade northrend event should be locked until after this occurs to encourage a betraying dg to trigger the event early for experience.
  9. Manetho
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    Manetho Super Soldier Brigand

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    Doesn't work with air units and catapults and all that shit