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LTF Balance and the fix! (long promised thread)

Discussion in 'Lordaeron: The Foremath' started by Spectator, Jul 21, 2017.

  1. Readywhip
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    Readywhip

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    My thoughts on LTF are that Evil needs to be experienced and coordinated to win and push. Alliance can have 1 player down and still push and win.

    TLDR: EVIL NEEDS A BUFF. Do not think adding two more factions is the answer. Will add to lag and more imbalances. Alot of the races already feel 'meh' and require some love.

    If you have even one player on Evil that has no clue, the game is over. Experiened players can easily coach a bad dwarves or a bad DG into what to do.

    Likewise, I have seen AIFO carry the whole evil team but his level of skill is just unmatched so that arguement is INVALID!!

    Right now the game really depends on the strength of the plague. Everything hinges on it. Too early, you dun goofed. Too late, south dun goofed. If that goes badly and Blue fails and Grey fails, the game seems to just end. Blue leaves or grey leaves, Alliance go Northrend - south starts QQing as everyone heads south and the game is over. Evil players are left begging alliance players to "PLEASE BETRAY." 25 min game ends, time for a rmk and another 10 minute wait in lobby and loading screen. This is not ideal. The game needs to flow better and allow for more smoother transitions without so much player interaction (I.E killing arthas). Here are some of my ideas.

    I think the easiest fix right now would be creating more focus on the north in order to keep more alliance players there. Next would be buffing plague and then adding more events to certain races.

    My first suggestion is making the defense of Alterac actually important. Right now OJ just leaves and goes CP hunting or forgets about it and it dies. Its useless. So as Grey usually occupies DG, High elves and purple. Alterac should also get an income advantage for defending itself - same as cult. Added bonus: if they defend it for 10 mins, his blademaster can become a full hero and (replaces the Troll hero). This will occupy more players up north, and give OJ a monetary incentive and more.

    But right now OJ has a lot to do. Help outland, secure kargath, fight southern. So I think Alterac should either go to Brown or Grey. I think Brown because he really has the shit end of the stick in LTF and as a result is one of the more unpopular races - with everyone liking to go THC for the events and power. Most games I play have brown losing and leaving. Giving Brown Alterac can provide him with a nice income boost, something to do and encourage the player to not rush yellow and lose his force and then be open to losing everything. Players will be more inclined to turtle Dragonmaw port while they defend Alterac and after the 10 minutes, wait for green and orange to push Dwarves.

    I am a big fan of this because DG has a very strong income and by the 20-30 minute mark, he can be 4/4. By adding basically a 'gold sink' - DG and Rangers won't be so highly upped. Brown gets a nice bonus income and maybe a free hero?

    Another idea for Alterac is adding Alterac humans. I think this requires some terrain changes in order to give Alterac about 3 CPs. Right now that path is largely unesed by green and it is a pretty bad path. The idea can be that for when Plague launches, Aiden steps out and becomes Greys hero and lends his army to Grey. Grey gets access to rogue knights and archers. This can help Grey push Andorhal and provide Grey with a nice melee tanking hero. If Grey loses Aiden, he loses access to that tree and the hero.

    That might be too much for Grey and also alliance but I love the idea of it. Green/Grey can trigger the "Betrayal of Man" event and he gets Alterac and a force there. This may be too much for Alliance to handle. Again, just another idea. This makes the overall strength plague already stronger and Grey can get additional units and a unique race tree. Maybe just corrupted knights, footmen and archers. If Grey loses Aiden, same thing happens like if teal loses Malganis, grey loses access to that tech tree and hero is lost forever

    Alexandros would then go to DG if he dies.
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    My second suggestion is forcing DG's hand. Killing Stratholme is quite easy. Killing Lordaeron Palace is extremely difficult and quite rare. Generators, cannon towers, and an instant teleport. High Elves, Lordaeron and Purple can easily hold it and destroy blues income, army, and heroes. I think there need to be two new events added. One is for killing Scarlet Monastery. If Scarlet Monastery is destroyed teal should get a small income reward and a demon portal (straight ripped from AWLR). This can provide some extra incentive for teal to go help take the capital while also making it easier for him to build infernals etc.

    I also think that teal should get Varimathas from this as getting Varimathas from killing Lordaeron capital happens WAYYYY too late in the game. If Lordaeron Palace is taking at the 25 min mark after the plague, Alliance players just start leaving and calling it GG. By the time teal can get Varimathas, civil war has happened. If teal takes Lordaeron Palace, Teal should get either a new demi hero, like from LTA he can get Delvaynr (spelling?) or he can get a demon boost to HP and spells. This is just my opinion. Seeing Varimathas is kind of rare and I love teals hero group and would love 3 dreadlords before everyone leaves.

    The second suggestion is if Stratholme is successfully destroyed, DG should get a debuff on Arthas that will not go away unless he takes Forstmoure. The debuff can be a -armor aura, negative damage, damage over time, etc. Needs to be something important, but not game-breaking, that forces DG hand to go to Northrend. This will add a layer of importance to both sides for taking and securing Stratholme. Teal will be more inclined to use his army and take Strat and then going east for his event (especially if he can get a bonus hero from Scarlet Monestary).

    My final suggestion probably be most hated but if Lordaeron Palace and Stratholme are both destroyed and DG has taken sword, DG be forced to go evil or go Garithos as King path. Trying to kill Arthas at this point is annoying. The game should just flow nicely. How many players have been like "WOOO I LOST ARTHAS, GUESS ILL PLAY EVIL NOW!" Legit, zero. Here, atleast they get a choice. If the player goes Arthas, DG needs to receive SOMETHING in Northrend or Lordaeron that also counts as income. Despite getting a fuck ton of gold for going evil, DG has to share all those cps with a lot of evil players. If CIVIL WAR breaks out, DG is not strong enough to fight OJ and Green and brown. Those players are already established and have many cps. Evil DG needs a better unit tree and better events to help carry the player in terms of income and the future fight of Civil War. DG is awarded nothing for taking Lordaeron.

    To help sweeten the pot for DG to stay human, he should get a bonus endgame event for Garithos and new units. If Garithos his 10 or 15 (whatever seems more realistic) he becomes the new Emperor and gets new model and upgraded stats (this is from Glory of the Horde). DG should also get Dark Paladins (like from WoW) to his rooster if he goes this path.
    • Informative Informative x 1
    Last edited: May 23, 2018
  2. TheKaldorei
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    TheKaldorei High Priestess of Elune Shaman Map Maker

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    I wouldn’t get too keen on balances until the major changes in the next patch (Nerubians Kul Tiras) factions come in though your points are valid.
  3. Spectator
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    Spectator Adapt or Die Donator

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    Well balance is a minor problem in LTF atm. We just tried hosting LTF on stream 3 days in a row. Every single time everyone crashed before 20 min in. The map is kinda unplayable at this state.
  4. Readywhip
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    Readywhip

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    While I am pumped for a new patch, the two new races sound very one-sided and hurt the existing core factions. Scourge already feels weak af in LTA and LTF, now you gonna take away their best units!! (I am sure you have prepped a backup) Gilneas being a new race could be fun and easy to implement as the existing events are there. Maybe there could be a timer for Gilneas before they can open the gate. You could re-terrain Gilneas to be different city districts, with a total of 3 CPS. The Gilneas player has to "take back the city from the undead" and is tasked with taking back the city. If they capture the control points, they get a free upgrade and can open the wall. I prefer this.

    Another option can be waves. I am not sure if you ever played Lordaeron Tactics, but there was a version where Gilneas had to fight creeps for a set time before they can interfere in the war. Giving Gilneas 10 minutes to deal with waves (option to type -interfere and lose out on a ton of gold and possibly hero) will help keep that player out of the fight.

    Likewise, the addition of Alterac nation for evil would implement events and units you already have in the game. (I would replace Vorpil with someone else.) I would reterrain Alterac to make it hold about 3 CPS and make the defenses incredibly powerful. Thereby occupying DG and all the northern alliance. However, there could be a debuff if Alterac leaves and goes to attack Northern Alliance (lets say Zoom or AIFO is playing them.) Or, an easier solution can be Alteracs food count is capped at 60-100. The player first needs to upgrade "Alterac Professionalism" before they can leave Alterac. This upgrades their units from milita, adds 100 food, gives a free level, a new hero and a archer upgrade. It is a free upgrade if Aiden hits Level X or if plague starts. Alterac can swap sides to good after 25 minutes and marry Calia. The low food cap (instead of a debuff or a shield) can prevent Alterac from pushing Alliance early but is not debilitating enough that they cannot defend themselves


    I can also see a solo path for Alterac. Alterac can research "Meet the Stranger" and Alterac receives Daval Pastor. If Daval hits 15 he can awaken Deathwing. This can be a fun race between THC and Alterac or it can be a new alliance between THC and Alterac. So if THC allies Alterac, Dark Iron can get Ragnaros.