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LTF Suggestions: Design and balance thread

Discussion in 'Lordaeron: The Foremath' started by Woodenplank, Nov 26, 2017.

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  1. Catan
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    Catan

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    Well another issue, if green leaves early the Alliance is stuck with green as Sylv that cant die as she is despawned, so the alliance has a harder time to break, or just make it impossilbe. And just fucked a game royal.
    I think something should be done against the "leaver/crap" that is leave at start, maybe split their stuff or make them just hostile, but remove them from the alliance when they leave within the first min...
  2. Woodenplank
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    Woodenplank Brigand Map Maker

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    Who are you again?

    Dunno about you; but I've seen plenty of games where Alliance kicked Legion's shit in, and destroyed Blackrock before Plague was unleashed.

    Any way - now that I've insulted you a bit, I'll admit you do have many valid points. And as @Spectator also pointed out; LTF has an inherently flawed setup of forces.
    Of course, any map that has (relatively) free alliance/betrayal will be somewhat "unstable" - but L:TA has that too, and generally fares much better - because you don't start in 6-person forces, and you're not likely to face off against 3-4 factions at a time, and thus you don't depend on your allies as much.

    But LTF has these huge 6-person factions, and you're even expected to break them up - which is what constantly happened when Legion/LK could both start the Civil War; which basically turned LK/Cult into Legion's workhorse bitches, because they'd weaken and Alliance and then inevitably lose the 4v2 later.
    I fixed that issue by only letting LK betray - but that, of course, introduced new issues of Evil staying together for too long, etc.

    I don't know what to tell ya.
    I could listen to people who say Alliance is too weak, and nerf evil - or I could listen to people who say Alliance stomps evil in the early game, and Evil doesn't have enough options without Civil, etc. etc. etc.

    In the end, I fear something drastic must happen to the map - but ironically it must help both Alliance and Evil somehow, as there are players on both sides complaining.

    Really - and this is for everyone - if anyone thinks they can do better than me then PLEASE! Speak up and ask for the editorship, I've already offered to step down and give the map over several times, but no one ever seems to wanna take it.
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  3. Zlade(PinkArcher)
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    Zlade(PinkArcher)

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    God i'm so glad that the rant wasnt taken as a well ya need to get gud sorta response. I was pretty pissed playing a few ltas in a row and getting the exact same outcome. 6v6 is hard to balance but what needs to happen is something like coming of the horde where one side controls north of the map and one side controls the bottom of the map, give it a few ways to access both sides and it should be easier to balance from there. But i have no idea how marsh will balance the lore races areas from there. Its a great design and a great map dont get me wrong, its just so broken, unfair and unfun.
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  4. Woodenplank
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    Woodenplank Brigand Map Maker

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    Pretty sure you mean LTF, right?

    Actually 6v6 is easy to balance. But 6v6 --> 6v4v2 OR 4v4v4 --> 4v3v5 OR 3v3v2v4... Now that's hard to balance.

    You don't make it sound very great... :p
  5. Zlade(PinkArcher)
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    Zlade(PinkArcher)

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    Yes, I mean LTF my apologies. Its fun because of the massive battles and sieges and all that, but all the fun aspects of the map rarely happen due to the imbalance of the game. Cult areas need to be harder to siege BUT they should be limited on how many towers they can amke or make them much more exspensive.
    As i said in a previous comment maybe some how getting both sides in one area of the map and not split them up?
  6. Zlade(PinkArcher)
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    Zlade(PinkArcher)

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    Thinking about it here are my thoughts: The portal to outlands should not be able to open till the 5th min of the game allowing yellow and brown to duke it out. Brown needs buffed yellow can easy rush Brown and kill him. Brown needs to be buffed in a aspect where its not possible to do that but still have the disadvantage of fighting yellow and green alone maybe make it harder to siege the inner parts of brown capital area. Greens base down south should be a event so they dont lose it off the bat, yes they lose a hero at the get go but they wont lose the building at the get go either. Teal should be unable to make all those abominations and undead units in north when scourge unleashes the plague its hard enough with so many abominations and tanky units to include a third faction. Blues nerubian event should only be possible once the plague is unleashed. This makes sense lore wise since nerubains didnt join the scourge till frozen throne when lordaeron already fallen. Oranges base in alterac should also be event based it just gets destroyed out right orange never really has a chance to use it. The bridge should be destroyable but repairable like in LTA. Kul'tiras path should be like a redemption path where you get all kinds of nice things as like a new faction but only if lordaeron has fallen. If i think of more details i'll post em here.
  7. Robovision
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    Robovision

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    Zlade: I dont think you watched or experienced good players fighting over the Deathknell. Antonidas fireball + Garithos shockwave instakill towers. HB elites dispell any summons. If aliance wants really focus they have hawks with cloud that just throw towers out of the game. But I must say a lot of players feed grey as they dont use any of these, attack Deathknell with ranged and spellcasters as frontline and blocking meele.

    A lot of things you wrote were discussed before and as a result of feedback from players they are done in the way they are done. And some of them are in progress like the Nerubians.

    Edit: my cult comment doesn't make much sense as I you wrote "Cult areas need to be harder to siege".
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2018
  8. Nephirin
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    Nephirin

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    I think most people are fairly satisfied with you as the editor, Wooden. You've done a fantastic job overall since taking the reins, and the map has improved with you as the editor. A balance problem as... endemic as this one doesn't mean you're doing a bad job at all.
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    Last edited by a moderator: May 2, 2018
  9. Acadian
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    Acadian

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    Hey can u please give brown the ability to repair his catapult? Yellow can repair his but brown cant. Its to easy to aim atm by air units and cannot be repaired. All it takes is one squad of gryphons from yellow to aim it down even if u have lik 6-8 towers defending it.
  10. Woodenplank
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    Woodenplank Brigand Map Maker

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    I've always been a little on the fence about the cannon/catapult.
    They slow down gameplay quite a lot I think - and either have a huge impact on fights, or just get aimed in 3 seconds...

    But maybe Dragonmaw needs the cannon to be immune-to-air-raid.
    They do often get rushed pretty bad - and are pretty much alone most of the time.
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