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LTF Suggestions: Revamps

Discussion in 'Lordaeron: The Foremath' started by Woodenplank, Nov 26, 2017.

  1. Woodenplank
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    Woodenplank Brigand Map Maker

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    Here's a Wooden suggestion. (Probably not open for implementation before 0.26'ish - as there's too much shit to do first)
    (I realize that a lot of people are gonna hate it, and I see a lot of flaws with it myself... But let's stir shit up? All I ask is that you read the full suggestion before making a judgement)

    Edit: Check out the Poll HERE!

    Freshen up the Old Gods
    Part 1: Changes to Twilight's Hammer
    • Awakening Yogg'Saron is a much, much bigger deal now:
      • New Techtree Options:
        • Faceless One Deathbringers - Uniquely powerful melee units, akin to Ymirjar Ascendants or Flesh Golems
        • Faceless One Warriors (same as before)
        • Yogg'Saron and his unique set of useful abilities
        • Doomfire Turrets - defensive buildings with AoE attacks to help protect the vault of Ulduar
      • New Hero: General Vezax (replaces Nekrosh)
        • The General of Yogg'saron's armies; this faceless behemoth leads the charge into any battle!
        • This motherfucker
    Part 2: Changes to Dark/Fel Horde
    • No longer has access to Nefarian (!)
    • When/if the Burning Legion is summoned, the Annihilan lord Mannoroth joins the fray
      • Demi-God-tier Hero (power level ca. Nefarian)
      • Instantly unlocks Pit Lord Elites (even without Civil War!)
      • Provides upgrades to the abilities and stats of Fel Horde Pit Lords
      • Provides an extra defense against "Illidari Sniping" - if Magtheridon dies; Mannoroth takes over the lordship of Outland
        • You still get the chance to go Illidari, if you really want to
        • It makes you lose your Manny' though
    Part 3: Changes to Black Dragonflight
    • Once Mor'ghor reaches level 15, he may call upon his lord and master Nefarian to join the Dragonmaw Horde
      • Further ties Black Dragonflight to the Legion team - as he needs to go to Blackrock Citadel

    Pros/Cons
    Issues?
    • Adds a net +1 demi-god-tier Hero to the Legion-Horde team
    • Nefarian/Blackrock-related-stuff tied to a player who doesn't even own Blackrock feels fucky
    • Woodenplank is a shit?
    • Vezax model will need some extra filesize space
    Awesome things
    • That Mannoroth though
    • That Old Gods update though
    • General Vezax though
    • Yogg'saron-becomes-relevant though
    • Illidari is not just a-single-Hero-Snipe though
    • Did I mention that Mannoroth though?

    @ImSoDamnedLaz
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    Last edited: Jan 16, 2018
  2. TheKaldorei
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    TheKaldorei GirlGamer BTW Shaman Map Maker

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    Keep Deathwing
    pl0s

    EDIT: Deathwing remains in the suggestion. Vezax now replaces Nekrosh instead.
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    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 15, 2018
  3. Nephirin
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    Nephirin

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    Deathwing is lame, let's see some actual Old God action.

    EDIT: Deathwing remains in the suggestion. Vezax now replaces Nekrosh instead.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 15, 2018
  4. Szons
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    Szons

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    So @Woodenplank those are great ideas, but actually you are making ltf even more the foremath, what is actually really good, but in almsot every patch alliance is becoming even much more weaker. With Cult and his OP Deathkneel base, and much better late game events (Legion members) some alliance members are becoming ussles couse (DG for example) their paths are blocked if they will not betray alliance. We should look at Rangers which are suppose to go Forsken for any other path, or DG who need to kill blue or get Lordaeron destroyed (even after he got shity new Lordaeron). BE who work as Scarlet Crusade with only diffrence that they will propably not stay with alliance. Actually Dwarfs re rather fine with big amount of conent like LB who was recently updated. I could aslo point Dalaran but I consider him 2x more usfull then DG, Highborn/Blood Elves both in late game. So this is my opinion.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 14, 2018
  5. Woodenplank
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    Woodenplank Brigand Map Maker

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    1st: Glad you (mostly?) like it.
    And yeah; I guess now that you mention it some of these ideas are tending more towards a Foremath idea.
    (Certainly Mannoroth inclusion will move us "further backwards" in the timeline)

    2nd: I didn't anticipate how strong Deathknell base would be
    It's somewhat harder to gage the effectiveness of terrain changes (note that since reterraining it I've only reduced the number of units there), but it may very well be due for a bit of a nerf (i.e. removing a death tower or two)

    3rd: LTF is bloody bothersome to balance
    I know this sounds like a bad excuse... But with a game that has so much back-and-forth ally'ing, it's just ruddy troublesome to work on "buffing" one thing, without screwing something else up. I'll try to give an example:
    • I "improve Alliance" - buff/rework New Lordaeron, add late-game events to Rangers (and/or remove the mechanic of snipe-Sylvanas-to-force-Forsaken), etc.
      • Fewer Alliance players defect to Undead (they would rather stay with their new event-heavy/re-buffed Alliance paths)
      • Undead never grow larger than 2-man team
      • Civil War doesn't happen (neither forced nor chosen, because Blue doesn't want to start 2v4v6 - because it would just fuck himself up)
      • Rest of Evil team is unhappy, because they lose out on events, tech, and Heroes related to Civil War
        • Alliance Players are happier, but other people go on the forums to complain that Lich King has no events to do pre-Civil War, or Fel/Dark Horde is now unplayable because Lich King refuses to start Civil War
    So while I think every race should be interesting, varied, well-balanced, "cool"... I must also try to coerce players into picking paths that harmonize the game overall.
    Everything simply pans out more smoothly if (for example) Forsaken and Scourge-Lordaeron happen, as it turns the game into a 4v4v4 where more people are happy (I realize that the remaining 4 Alliance members can feel a bit "shat on"... but most will prefer this option)

    I hope you can (at least somewhat) sympathize with my conumdrum here :(
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  6. Elbadruhel
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    Elbadruhel

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    @Woodenplank i like the changes to THC, it makes feel more old gods with a Claxxi and Faceles Ones army and Vezaxx ruling ur troops. Its awesome.

    But... I disagree in the Oj changes. I will try to explain it a bit and maybe give a suggestion based on some of ur ideas that look cool to me:
    - Mannoroth is not needed, u already have the bitch Maggy, 2 great anhilans could be too OP or too hard to control.
    - I like ur idea of when Legion is summoned, Fel Horde Pitlords are buffed, but instead of adding a demi god mannoroth, why u dont empower Magtheridon a bit... Or even make him revivable 1 time? Something to empower Fel Horde without having to add a new demi god hero.
    - Nefarian is a cool guy in lore and its relevant to the map, but maybe a so strong hero is op for legion, and i know why u want to delete it. But... Maybe there is a better answer looking to lore than just remove it. Why u dont add more cool skills in BRM so Oj can use them like Nefarian ruling from there, and they are related to Rend lvl or u destroying some places? For example:

    • Skill (huge CD). Nefarian can send some of his dragonkin to help Rend in his fight agaisnt the Dwarves. U get some permanent Drakonid in BRM, maybe 6?. This is the starting basic skill.
    • Skill (x seconds CD). Nefarian is proud of his orc pets, and has decided to support them a bit more, sending some Black Drakes (copy of Brown unit) to support them in combat. NEED TO DESTROY DUN ALGAZ. Summon 2 black drakes for Oj anywere in South for some secs (they go back to BRM after some time), replaces summon Nefarian.
    • Skill (x seconds CD). Nefarian is enjoying the dwarven destruction u are fulfilling, seeing Dun Garon destroyed has made him to expand his influence more to the north. NEED TO DESTROY DUN GAROK. Summon 2 black drakes for Oj anywere in center Lordaeron (from the bridge to the mountains north of Jinthalor, it includes Dalaran but not Andorhal or Capital) for some secs (they go back to BRM after some time), replaces summon Nefarian.
    • Whenever u destroy a Drake sanctuary: like emerald one in Jinthalor, Red one north of DM port or the Nexus... Nefarian can use the blood and eggs of those drakes to research and improve his chromatic flight. Every time u destroy one of those sites, u unlock one of 3 upgrades in BRM: red breed, green breed or blue breed. Every one of them improves a bit ur Chromatic Drakes (ur big flying beasts), maybe giving them 1 skill each or improving the fire breath (Red), the HP (green) and adding magic inmunity or giving devour magic (blue).
    • When u destroy the 3 sanctuaries,unlock the 3 upgrades and Rend gets LEVEL 15. Nefarian has fully developed his chromatic flight, and he creates his new monster: Chromagus. As u have proven to be a good commander, he accepts to give u his new pet to destroy the world in his name. U get Chromagus as demi-hero or demi-god in BRM. Its a great WALKING beast with some cool skills, like devour magic.
    This would make Oj game more interesting and with cool objectives to achieve, people always love that flavour. AND! You wont ever feel again that of "i have nothing to do till min 15 or civil war enabled". NO! U can now focus in warring dwarves and make Nefarian happy so he gives u more troops and upgrades. You also replace Nefarian, a flying beast (u all know the problems that the flying heroes has) with Chromagus, a walking one, who will always be easier to balance. Just add some pit lord cool thing for when Legion is summoned, and u have a really cool and easier to be balanced faction, than a one with flying nefarian or Op mannoroth :p

    And finally, Brown. It has no sense for brown to be related with Nefarian, since Moghor NEVER worked with him. And ingame, as u say, it has problems, since Nefarian is in BRM and BRM is Oj. Weird. instead, if u want Moghor to summon someone at lvl 15, you can make him to summon LADY SINESTRA. Who was working with him everytime and sending him drakes to ride. U can use Nefarian model for her if u want, even in my suggestion Nefarian never fights so... This would allow u to delete Deathwing if u think is a good idea cause it has big filesize. If u allow this to brown, u could also add some cool stuff in Shadowmoon for Brown and Moghor since he had a base there and nowadays there are just tons of useless Oj buildings, u could delete some of them and create this cool brown base, since Oj doesnt need so much buildings there having already bases in Helfire, Dark Portal and BRM (and even in Dragonmaul rock too later).
  7. Zerwikaptur
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    Zerwikaptur Okay. No need to fight it then. Brigand Donator

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  8. Woodenplank
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    Woodenplank Brigand Map Maker

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    C'thun*

    @TheKaldorei
    Deathwing is just an insane lizard who never got out of his "destructive toddler" phase.
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    Last edited: Jan 15, 2018