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Siege of Quel'Thalas 5.2

Discussion in 'Siege of Quel'Thalas' started by Draxy, Nov 4, 2015.

  1. Draxy

    Draxy Map Maker

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    A few months ago @Marshmalo gave me the map (SoQ 5.1) because I requested so after playing quite a lot of games noticing certain things that need to be addressed. I made a bug list but she didn't have time to fix them so she decided it'd be better to let someone else continue the work. Please note that a big majority of the changes I've made have been discussed between the two of us.
    The reason I did not attach the map yet is because I have a problem with item cooldown and camera(commands) but main things concerning gameplay will be stated in the changelog below.
    So, here is the changelog:
    Balance concerning items:
    This was my comment on Thuzadin ring(and other items) before I changed it (green is my comment now/what was changed):

    Items like Thuzadin ring, when stacked on int heroes is too imba. In fact, all items that are not one use should be reduced to one per hero (unique). I mean, that way, you can have +75 int (saying we leave one slot open for healing potion or teleport) on your hero which means that he will never get out of mana, have higher damage and higher mana capacity. On Noth that tactic is waaaaaaaay too good, it means 24/7 Q,W,E usage.
    Same thing goes for Horn of Silvermoon, +5 to all stats x 5 = imba hero. It should be one per hero. If you do this (which I highly recommend) you should also add 1-3 new items to Arcane Vault.
    All non-consumable items are limited to one per hero. This was done to prevent the problem mentioned above. Also, all items in shops are available always (this way, you don't have to build 10 shops because other items are on cooldown).

    Considering legendary items (Hood of Cunning & Cloak of the Farstrider), I am against them being in the game. Here is why, I will give an example. Let's say all players in the map were me. Knowing that the person who has those items will have quite an advantage I would rush the troll camp as red/lb/teal/yellow. Green would go take the cloak so elves would never be in a lose-lose situation. So, even if you somehow lose Hood you still got cloak. It could be said that one negates the other but I do not really think so. I'd say Hood is more of a straight out buff and cloak is more of annoying-all-around thingy which promotes hero-only playing around.
    I'd really like to hear why are they even there in the first place. It makes the fight kinda predefined because the side that gets 1 or both of the items has the advantage. Imo, they should either be removed or put that they drop from random troll (certain amount of % any troll on the map but if it drops once it won't drop again). Maybe add some kind of item that, again drops from random troll, which gives int, mana regen and chain lightning ability or something similar. From what I've seen, those items are ruining the gameplay because you either rush that item locations or have a disadvantage, meaning, it limits the amount of tactics people can use at the beginning of the game. I don't think that is good.
    After discussion we decided to keep the legendary items in game but make the trolls carry them strong enough to not be taken out by starting forces.
    Also, changed legendary items a bit: Hood of Cunning - 15% damage increase aura (900 AOE)
    Cloak of the Farstrider(no longer gives invisibility, now grants 15agi, 10%as and 60ms along with the same active effect (900 AOE))

    Talassian Emerald's item ability shouldn't be allowed to be cast on waygates rendering them useless. This game is great for having a lot of possibilities of changing the frontline/focus of the map by taking another way/approach.
    This is fixed. Item ability cooldown reduced from 40 to 30 seconds and it now gives +3 to all stats (to make it worthwhile carrying it around)

    A lot of items have been tweaked, removed or added. I'll update this later on.
    Balance concerning heroes:
    I don't think it is balanced that Arthas can tank anything past level 7-8. He runs around Quel, killing anything in his way despite being slowed, can't get out of mana(Q mana cost 45, E mana cost 30), and after you lose AT LEAST half of your army he teleports out if in danger, heals up and repeats. He can get wherever he wants with the Sky Barge...
    Don't confuse it for me crying thinking I play elves only. I've done it as Red, as well. Solution for this might be to increase the amount of mana cost of Death Coil so Arthas can't do Q+W all the time but left out only with W which would not promote solo play (hero only) simply because he would die faster. His base MS should be reduced, as well. He moves/flanks around too fast.
    -Reduced Arthas's movement speed from 450 to 355
    -Arthas's Butcher spell's first level increased from 35% to 45%, Death Coil mana cost increased to 90 to reduce the spam(now you have to think will you heal yourself or damage the enemy). DC Cooldown increased from 8 to 15 seconds. However, Death Pact now costs no mana.
    Arthas is not the only hero that was tweaked. Everything else will be explained later on.
    AI malfunction:
    When all of the southern bridges(them being blue's bridge, bridge leading to teal and yellow's first base, bridge that can be used to backstab teal and yellow's first base, bridge leading out of green's base)are destroyed, brown's units that spawn in light blue's base their pathing gets seriously bugged (they move left and right around green's destroyed gate or travel as far to the gold mine north of the troll ziggurat(where you kill the troll that drops the item that opens passage to hidden groove). It is not as simple as targeting them and A-Move to some place. When you do that they override the command multiple times, so you have to issue the command for like 10-15 seconds and even then, if they are still nearby the gate they return to being bugged.
    I made the triggers and tested them out and it works as it should.
    Only once I saw orange's units also have extreme pathing issues. They were patrolling from south-eastern power generator to middle gates (near teal's second base) and to sunwell. I do not know what caused that.
    Not fixed yet because I am not sure what is causing that.
    Balance concerning buildings:
    Black Citadels(Don't forget Halls of the Dead, as well) should be restricted to a certain number. I managed to one shot Anasterian with 4 control groups of Black Citadels. Since they are considered a flying unit, they can be stacked in one place. That is why the Sunwell was 4-5 shotted mere moments later.
    Even though a fairly good counter to them is the Ballista I don't think it is fair. Black Citadels do not cost any food unlike Ballista.
    My opinion is that you should make them restricted (Necro,Halls and Citadels) to something like 5 and increase their armor and hp. Making them more useful as a forward base instead of mass murder buildings. :D
    -Restricted units to 4(Halls of the Dead, Black Citadel).
    Balance concerning units:
    I think that air units like gargoyles and nerubian terrors should be restricted. Something like 36 or 48. If not that then increase the gold cost slightly and definitely remove normal armor from nerubian terrors. Air should take extra damage from piercing attacks. I mean I do not think it is good that newbies spam only gargoyles and think they will get to somewhere with it...
    -Nerubian Terror and Gargoyle armor changed from medium to unarmored. Still not sure if air units should be restricted to a certain amount.
    Nerubian Seer's teleport ability is waaaaay too good, it should be removed. You can sneak a shade in and just mass teleport to it. Not to mention they melt frontline with magic attacks and take reduced damage from piercing attacks.
    -Removed teleport from Nerubian Seer and added Spell Steal instead.
    -Buffed High Elven Swordsmen to make them be semi useful in the early game instead of being total garbage:
    Damage base from 11 to 14
    Attack speed from 1.35 to 1.20
    Hit points increased by 50
    Added 15% evasion and reduced base armor by 1.
    -Reduced hp of brown's meat wagons from 380 to 350.
    -Base damage of skeletal mage and skeletal warrior reduced by 2 respectively.
    Terrain bugs:
    There was a hole in blue's first gate. More precisely, its south-western wall as shown in the picture: http://postimg.org/image/qcbq3xp3h/cf260e18/
    This is now fixed.
    Hotkeys and tooltips:
    A lot of hotkeys, tooltips and typos have been fixed. Added QWERASDFYXCV hotkey system to everything(note that if there was place, I moved the ability from Y hotkey to some other hotkey to prevent frustration from someone who uses QWERTZ or any other keyboard).
    All abilities have their cast range/area of effect/casting time/cooldown... stated in the tooltip.
    Other things concerning units and/or their abilities:
    -You can not summon the guardians of Sunwell before 20 minutes have passed.
    -All elven units' build time is halved (5 seconds) except for ballista and highborn elite which are at 20. Air units are at 15. Because waiting 13 seconds for a more or less useless meat shield like swordsman is kinda illogical.
    -Reduced phoenix's base damage by 20. Added incinerate. Item that summons it costs 500 up from 300. Item can be re-used every 10 minutes (to prevent spamming leading to imba phoenix squad). Reduced phoenix's negative regeneration from -10 to -5 hp/sec. (Phoenix egg dies in 3 hits and needs 45 seconds to rehatch)
    -Acolyte's Restore ability hotkey changed to R from A
    -Removed Ambush from archers.
    -Changed Highborn Elite's attack range from 250 to 220
    -Based Silvermoon Archers of Summon Bear spell instead of Feral Spirit so they can't get dispeled. (same with egg sacks of anub'rekhan)
    Removed Wind Walk and added Critical Strike, Searing Arrows and Sentinel.
    -All workers (except extra) now start mining gold mines during intro. All players now start with 3 extra workers.
    -Necromancer's Cripple mana cost changed from 175 to 125. Removed damage reduction. Lasts 40(2) seconds.
    -Doom Guard has War Stomp and Battle Armor(Hardened Skin), has no mana and gold cost increased from 200 to 220.
    -Crystal Nexus's Chain Lightning spell increased cast range from 900 to 1000.
    -Changed shield generator's attack damage base from 95 to 114 and added multishot. Power Generator recieved a mass shield (like crystal nexus) but lasts shorter and CD is longer. Shield generator is immune to Frost Wyrm's Freezing Breath.
    This is done to counter frost wyrms+group of gargoyles killing the shield generator making it require teamwork to bring it down. So, you need more air if you want to kill it instead of sending 2 control groups A-move on it.
    -Added a replacement for red's nerubians (to distinguish them a bit and add variety) - Skeleton archers, they have low hp and high dmg but are unarmored (cant benefit from armor upgrades). 250hp, 28 dmg base, 1.5s AS, 0 armor.
    Other things concerning items:
    -Removed Collapse Gold Mine item (since I've removed this item from the shop (since it was OP) there is a blank spot in the Scourge shop meaning I ran out of ideas what to put there...)
    -Removed slow from Frostmourne because of Orb of Slow interfering with life steal.
    -Burn/Repair Bridge's cost increased from 500 to 650.
    -Sacred Stone item shop is no longer an item shop. (At least for now...)
    -Removed the hidden soul item.
    -Removed scroll of town portal and tome of knowledge from hidden grove.
    Other things:
    -Starting gold changed from random numbers (500-2500) to 500 for elves and 750 for evil.
    -Reduced Piercing damage to Hero armor from 45% to 40%.
    -Changed sentence when a bridge is restored since the bridge is not restored only by dark rangers, sometimes.
    -We decided not to put Kirin Tor Mage in the game because there really is no need for Elves to get a powerful demi-hero.
    -Fixed Carrion Bettle ability not requiring an upgrade beforehand.
    -Agility no longer provides armor.

    -Gold cost of Sky-Fury Tower increased from 80 to 130.
    -Damage of Sky-Fury Tower increased from 75 to 88.
    -Deepholm Tower's damage base reduced from 130 to 70. Attack type changed from Pierce to Chaos. Attack speed from 1 to 0.80

    Everything goes mad in intro cinematic if a certain player(s) lag (waiting for players). Meaning, things like Sylvanas disappearing during cinematic without even getting near the bridge (last scene in intro cinematic).
    Outro cinematic when Scourge wins occasionally (I saw it only twice) has a necromancer or some other unit going the same way as Sylvanas, apart from the 2 banshees
    I am not sure if these can be fixed but it is really minor so it doesn't really matter.

    I will edit this post later on to add tweaks to items and heroes.
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    Last edited: Nov 8, 2015
  2. Manetho

    Manetho Super Soldier Brigand

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    Sound promising, if you meet any problems uploading the map here, tell me, the feature isn't in for a long time :3
    If you want to work more on this map in the future, I can give you your own forum for it.
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  3. Hawk

    Hawk The Old Lion Map Maker

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    Sound very promising, I had no idea you were a map maker @Draxy. ^_^ Keep up the good work! By the way did you join our in game clan? @Manetho give him map maker title, and brigand if he did join our ingame clan. ^_^
  4. Manetho

    Manetho Super Soldier Brigand

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    Alright, but it is too late for that atm ^^
  5. Uther01

    Uther01 God of champions Brigand Map Maker

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    Just a question, why is this in the LTA section? :(III)-
  6. StoPCampinGn00b

    StoPCampinGn00b Hive Community Manager

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  7. Draxy

    Draxy Map Maker

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    Nah, I am not in the clan since I don't have original warcraft 3 (shameonme)
    Because @Marshmalo told me to put it here but it will be moved from here soon
    That would be quite interesting, I can see some of the spells and heroes used in past versions. I kinda disagree with the updates being more known to the general public. The gap between 3.6 and 5.2 is quite a huge one, it has quite OP ultimates or shitty spells on heroes, as well as things like Ticho, blue's 1st gate being useless, etc etc...
    My primary concern now is to release the map (probably will be done today).
  8. CazDawg

    CazDawg Lazy Australian Map Maker

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    Good to see somebody is working on the map again, good luck!
  9. Draxy

    Draxy Map Maker

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    Please note that I have to either find a solution for this ( http://brigandshaven.net/threads/ability-cooldown.2578/ ) or set the CD to 5 minutes which then requires more adjustment.
    Also, I experienced a crash during loading screen so I'm fixing that at the moment. (Fixed, removed help icon from main buildings and remade summon the guardians spell)
    These things might or might not prolong the release. /cry

    Also note that I didn't touch Dark Rangers at all, which means there might be some fuckups.
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2015
  10. jack07tr

    jack07tr Guest

    Yay no more beast Arthas who does not give crap to enemy army and destroys everything at early game.Though in that game I always had tons of useless gold and game turned mostly who spams most with opy heroes.As much as I know you can teleport to any unit as yellow it is broken when elves sends a windwalk hero(green)/unit(farstrider) to spawning pit and teleport full army of ballistas and win the game.

    Frost-gargoyle mass is nothing but feed against good players the problem starts when undead player mixs destroyers with frosties(especially purple who can mana/hp regen to destroyers.).
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 5, 2015